UFC 86 Recap: Griffin Proves To Be Ultimate

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Updated: July 6, 2008
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Leading up to the main event, the main card had seen three decisions and one submission. None of the fights had been edge-of-your-seat, back and forth barn burners. In fact, the bouts were rather dull. Chris Lytle suffered an intense cut that was pouring blood and covered a good portion of the octagon floor. Joe Stevenson came back from being on the verge of defeat, to win via solid submission. Aside from those few highlights, however, the action and excitement was sparse. But, whatever the earlier fights lacked, the main event redeemed them all and reinvigorated the evening. Rampage versus Griffin has got to be an early favorite for fight of the year, living up to its billing.

The Best in the World

Not many people believed Forrest Griffin would survive five rounds with the now former champ, Rampage Jackson. Even fewer people gave Griffin a chance at winning (this writer believed it was possible though-?http://cagetoday.com/ufc-86-preview-and-predictions-part-2/#comments). But, once again, Griffin was able to prove the critics wrong in impressive fashion.

Griffin used constant movement, fired off non-stop jabs, and consistently hobbled Rampage with bad intentioned leg kicks. Instead of throwing one punch at a time, Griffin would often throw combinations. He was able to set the tempo of the fight and effectively control Rampage’s aggression. Griffin entered the fight with a clearly defined strategy; stay out of Rampage’s range, never stop being aggressive, and keep him off balance with a wide variety of strikes (he used knees, elbows, combinations, leg kicks, high kicks, etc).

At no point during the fight did Rampage look 100% comfortable. He rarely threw more than two punches at a time and simply tried to counter punch for most of the fight. Instead of setting up his power punches, Rampage was content to unload a few big shots at a time and then sit back. Unfortunately for Rampage, looking to end the fight with one big punch would prove a costly decision. It seemed from the outset that Rampage had no clear strategy or game plan.

There were times during the fight when Rampage displayed his freakish strength. After losing the majority of the first round, Rampage rocked Griffin with an uppercut that floored him. Later in the fight, Griffin attempted to lock on a triangle chock and Rampage displayed a modified version of the devastating slams that made him famous in PRIDE. Rampage has sick power, but relied on it too much and was unable to harness it effectively. Throughout the fight, it looked as though Rampage was waiting to see what Griffin was going to do next. It was as if Rampage knew he wanted to knock Griffin out, but couldn’t figure out the best way in which to do it. All the post-fight complaints about Griffin having to “beat the champ” never made sense to me. Griffin avoided a brawl, moved forward most of the time, landed more shots, was the aggressor, and never let Rampage get comfortable. If anything, it was Rampage who seemed overly tentative.

Losing to Keith Jardine has been the best thing to ever happen to Forrest Griffin, because he has looked like a completely different fighter ever since. Rarely will you see Griffin make a mistake these days. He strictly adheres to his game plan, forces his opponent to play into his hands, and does not get overzealous. In his last two fights Griffin has thoroughly beaten two of the pound for pound best fighters in the world.

Overall, Rampage landed the much bigger shots, but Griffin was far more active and landed frequently. The swings of this five round war were tremendous. When one fighter would seemingly gain confidence and the upper hand, the other would regain it with a drastic maneuver. Both fighters displayed a tremendous amount of heart, but the right decision was made, and a new world light heavyweight champion was crowned in Forrest Griffin.

Winner gets a title shot? No thanks

As far as title eliminators go, this one was incredibly unimpressive. If the UFC had hoped to see Patrick Cote or Ricardo Almeida rise to the occasion and look spectacular enough to warrant a shot against Anderson Silva, they were surely disappointed. Neither fighter looked remarkable and the fight itself was lack luster.

After a strong opening round, Almeida looked gassed and all but abandoned trying to work his ground game. Cote was careful and reserved, not wanting to get taken down. In the end, Cote eked out a split decision, but did nothing to improve his stock.

Who is the UFC trying to kid? Neither of these guys is qualified to challenge Silva. And, as little a chance as Cote would have against Silva, his odds of winning are better than the UFC’s chances of selling that as a main event. That match would be similar to the 90’s film Mars Attacks! The filmmakers had packed the movie with well-known actors and likeable entertainment personalities, pushed the movie hard through different forms of advertising, but, ultimately, it was only slightly successful because it just wasn’t a very good film. Cote doesn’t overly excite fans because he isn’t an exceptional fighter and has little chance of beating the best. The fight simply isn’t appealing.

What the UFC needs to do is start pitting their established fighters against one another and see who emerges as the best. While the division has few stars (besides Silva and Dan Henderson), they do have solid fighters who could provide some clarity for the division. Thales Leites, Dan Henderson, Nate Marquardt, Chris Leben, Patrick Cote, and Michael Bisping (not including Yushin Okami) round out a solid group of prospective title challengers. Building some of them up through a series of high profile wins would help increase their exposure and credibility. They have already begun to use this strategy by having the upcoming Leben/Bisping bout.

After Cote’s performance last night, the UFC is going to need to build more excitement before they can sell any of those fighters as a legit contender.

Solid but safe

I’ll give Josh Koscheck his due. En route to dominating Chris Lytle, Koscheck played it incredibly safe, used his wrestling skills, and kept Lytle controlled on the ground. Yes, Kos was smart. He avoided striking with Lytle at all costs. But, he did nothing to endear himself to fans.

Kos was perfectly content to coast to an easy win. He took zero risks and except for a brief flurry at the end of round three, it almost looked like he was running away from Lytle on his feet. Not exactly an awe inspiring display of heart or tenacity. He didn’t need to engage in a war, but he could have been more aggressive overall.

Lytle was overwhelmed and the fight played out as expected. It’s time for Kos to once again fight the division’s best. He has put himself right in the thick of the title picture and he needs to be pushed and tested, so his place in the hierarchy of the stacked welterweight division can be decided.

Quick Shots

  • Joe Stevenson was being outworked and looked out classed by Gleison Tibau. But, Big Daddy is resourceful and has guts. While being taken down, Daddy secured his trademark guillotine, which he has done beautifully in the past. The maneuver bailed him out of deep trouble.
  • The problem for Stevenson is, he doesn’t seem to be getting any better. His striking is average, his wrestling is ok, and he has some submission skills. It’s his experience, composure and toughness that wins him fights. But, if he ever wants to get to that next level, he will need to become a more complete fighter.
  • Tyson Griffin once again won in dominating fashion. And yet, once again, Griffin could not finish the fight. Two things are becoming very clear about Griffin:

    The first is his enormous amount of skills. He is well rounded, good at just about everything. And best of all, he continues to improve regularly.

    Secondly, though, it’s apparent he has zero knockout power. If he doesn’t submit his opponents, it is difficult for him to knock people out. He reminds me a lot of Forrest Griffin. Tyson makes few mistakes, but he must learn how to finish an opponent off. Nonetheless, he has put himself in the title picture, and established himself as a rising star.

Strangest quote of the night

  • Joe Rogan once again outdid himself. When offering his astute observation regarding Chris Lytle’s heinous cut, he compared it to, “a goat’s vagina!” It was a stunning display of failed comedic one-liners.
  • On a more positive note, it appears Rogan has expanded his selection of clothing and bought himself a new shirt.

37 Comments

  1. kom34

    July 6, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    yeah rogan is busting out some new shirts finally. i also notice that he is getting more frustrated lately with goldberg. he rolls his eyes and you can tell he gets tired of correcting him. goldberg is way more knowledgeable than before but sometimes he jumps the gun on saying someone is rocked…which is his favorite word.

  2. kom34

    July 6, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    i agree that cote and almeida didn't have the most exciting fight. i hope okami gets the next shot at anderson in 185.

    forrest has heart. he was dazed a few times but found a way to keep distance and recover. i liked how humble rampage was in the ring. but after the fight he was wanting an immediate rematch because he really thought he won.

  3. tony

    July 7, 2008 at 12:03 am

    Rampage won the fight in my opinion. Forrest did good but he's not exceptional. I believe it was a "white" thing. A middle America thing. Rampage is rough around the edges and Forrest is funny but trying. With Rampage he speaks from the tip of his mind unlike Forrest he processes it from the middle to sound witty.

    I do like Forrest though. I'm glad he's champ and not Henderson. But, I can certainly see Wanderlei taking the belt from him right away then dropping it to Chuck and Chuck losing it to Lyoto then Rampage pulling out a decision to Lyoto and the belt back around Quinton.

    Have I lost it? Thoughts!

  4. tony

    July 7, 2008 at 12:05 am

    Rampage won the fight in my opinion. Forrest did good but he’s not exceptional. I believe it was a “white” thing. A middle America thing. Rampage is rough around the edges and Forrest is funny but trying. With Rampage he speaks from the tip of his mind unlike Forrest he processes it from the middle then to the tip to sound witty.

    I do like Forrest though. I’m glad he’s champ and not Henderson. But, I can certainly see Wanderlei taking the belt from him right away then dropping it to Chuck and Chuck losing it to Lyoto then Rampage pulling out the decision win against Lyoto and the belt back around Quinton.

    Have I lost it? Thoughts!

  5. naco21

    July 7, 2008 at 12:49 am

    You have definitely lost it!

  6. Nichole Lesniak

    July 7, 2008 at 12:51 am

    Nicely done, Jordan. Rogan's shirt was the very first thing I noticed – I guess these guys read the boards (which is also why I think Mazzagatti shaved his mustache lol).

    kom – I noticed that too. Rampage seemed very respectful immediately after the fight – virtually admitting that he "got his ass whooped", but then later he thinks he won??? I GUARANTEE it was his ppl filling his head with crap.

    And yes, Tony. I think you lost it!

  7. naco21

    July 7, 2008 at 12:51 am

    You actually think they gave the fight to Forest because he is white and whitty?

    Reeeeeeediculous!

  8. Carlos Pena

    July 7, 2008 at 1:12 am

    I disagree with the decision. I am one who believes that to win the belt you have to beat the champ convincingly, not squeak out a controversial decision. I think the pros to Forrest was that he was the aggressor and took the fight to Rampage. Mounted him but did not do any damage, almost got him in two submissions but Rampage was able to get out. Rampage did not attack, he seemed satisfied to just wait for his shots. When he did get them, they rocked Forrest and his face after the fight proved it. While Rampage seemed unscathed.

    Rampage lacked the killer instinct and once the leg kicks did their damage he was just content to sit and wait. His ultimate mistake. What really angered me was that he took the last round off; thinking he had 3 rounds to 1 over Forrest. In the end the judging did a disservice to everyone. One Judge had Rampage winning the last round? I don't know of anyone who would agree with that, even Rampage at the press conference conceded he lost the last round.

    Ultimately, the fight was a draw in my opinion. Neither fighter showed a dominant performance. Forrest brought the energy but not the damage, Rampage brought the damage but not the energy. In the end, I don't think many hardcore fans want to see the belts trade when there isn't a definitive winner.

  9. roy

    July 7, 2008 at 1:23 am

    i agree carlos

  10. Scooby Doo

    July 7, 2008 at 1:44 am

    Well said c pena. Rampage got to lazy being the champ did'nt have that hunger, cause that werewolfs belly been full.

  11. STEVEO

    July 7, 2008 at 3:36 am

    I say rampage was a suspect champ. I think right now I find forrest in the same position though. Suspect as in he can lose to anyone who gets in there with him. Chuck, Wandi, Shogun, Hendo, Bonner, those would be great fights to watch but all fights that can go either way. I think rampage should have trained harder and stopped worrying about being hollywood like the man he took the belt from. Funny how you see them both in the same situation. SO having said that, who is rampages next fight? I would like to see him fight wandi personally and then the winner will get the winner of forrest and chuck for the belt.

  12. PooPooPlatter

    July 7, 2008 at 3:41 am

    Forrest clearly won as it was even unanimous in the judge's eyes.

    Rampage was backing up the entire fight and only got a few good punches in. When Forrest took Rampage down he was like a turtle on his back.

    Rampage even knew he lost before the results were announced. Look at the way he acted.

  13. PooPooPlatter

    July 7, 2008 at 4:29 am

    It's also interesting and important to point out that Forrest outstruck Rampage.

    Link attached:

    http://fightmetric.com/fights/Griffin-Rampage.htm

    Forrest clearly won the fight.

  14. Kash

    July 7, 2008 at 6:47 am

    How can you be a suspect champ when you TKO Chuck inside of a minute and outwork Hendo. Ramp was a good champ, he's a good fighter, and it wasn't his night. I don't think Forrest got lucky, he's tough as hell. It wasn't a really convincing win but I had him ahead at the end too.

  15. tony

    July 7, 2008 at 7:00 am

    Should Rampage get the title shot immediately? I say "Yes". Good ol' Carlos put it very eloquently, "I disagree with the decision. I am one who believes that to win the belt you have to beat the champ convincingly, not squeak out a controversial decision." (feels good to be quoted, huh Carlos?) Hence, why I believe Rampage should have a rematch even more then I would say that Hamil should have had a rematch against, Bisping (and, I was so desperate to see that rematch!)

    What say, you?

  16. roy

    July 7, 2008 at 7:33 am

    chuck held the belt for awhile and didn't get a instant rematch, i don't know if he wanted one though right away.i would like to see a instant rematch but i am not sure that it would be fair theres alot of guys in that weight class that are waiting for there shot.i did not think rampage would hold the belt for to much longer but i did not think he would lose it to forrest who i don't see holding the belt for long either.

  17. icemanrcks

    July 7, 2008 at 8:20 am

    you guys need to open your eyes and know something about mma before speaking. the rampage fight was fair. forrest didnt knock him out or tap him out but the decision was right. other than being rocked in the 1st round the fight went just how forrest had planned. he got in got out and used his kicks to perfection. he controled the fight compleatly(octagon control). key point in winning decisions

  18. Morey

    July 7, 2008 at 9:28 am

    Dana fully expected Chuck to beat Jardine and get an almost instant title shot. That didn't work out so now Chuck is in the position where if he wins Rashad he will get the next shot. Ramp will be at least one fight out.

    Aside form all that. I agree with you guys that are saying you have to be convincing to win the title. Forrest was technically convincing, but how many times did he get flashed and almost go out? It was a great fight but the whole time I was thinking maybe Ramp could end it. I wasn't really feeling the same way about maybe Forrest could end it.

  19. Ryan S

    July 7, 2008 at 10:20 am

    All I have to say is that the judges are judges and we are not for a reason. They all agreed that forrest won. Why does everyone else think they know more than the judges? I agree with Icemanrcks. Since when did a fighter have to finish a fight to get the belt? Everyone wants their favorite to win and will find any reason to say they should have. Rampage fought a good fight, but he seemed a little too careful. Griffin was more aggressive, got rocked a couple times, but it didn't seem to phase him too much. He completely dominated the ground game. Does everyone thing Rampage won because he can punch hard?

  20. Ryan S

    July 7, 2008 at 10:20 am

    think*

  21. tony

    July 7, 2008 at 11:26 am

    Everyone has their opinion and that's a good thing. But can we agree that Rampage and Forrest need a rematch whether or not Forrest has the belt or not?

  22. kom34

    July 7, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    hell yeah. i'd like to see the rematch. i think they put on a good show. both of them got hurt and both had the heart to get themselves into the fight.

  23. Onri

    July 7, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    The fact is Forrest technically won. He's got the belt now. Rampage isn't going to get an immediate rematch unless Chuck loses.

  24. tom

    July 7, 2008 at 4:55 pm

    melvin is back and damn did forrest really win

  25. STEVEO

    July 7, 2008 at 10:57 pm

    This is about setting the standard. DOESNT MATTER IF ITS A TITLE FIGHT. I love this …… every guy that sat here and said that Bisping beat Hamil straight up is bitching and whining because they are rampage homers. The fact is on total points in what is described as a "fair" scoring system FORREST WON. Close fioght of not the judges awarded the fight and BELT to forrest.

  26. Dan Anderson

    July 8, 2008 at 6:11 am

    This is going to be a rather lengthy post, but please bear with me, I have a lot to say. I am a big fan of both Forrest and Rampage, and the UFC in general. I have watched every UFC event since #1, most of them several times, and this is maybe (alongside bisping-hamill, and randleman-rutten) the worst decision ever in my opinion. I’ve been reading articles and posts around the web, and just cant believe some of these people watched the same fight as me but saw it so differently. I want to share why I saw Rampage decisively winning this fight, and why Forrest receiving a unanimous decision by 2 and 3 points is downright ridiculous. First off, this is a UFC judges criteria for scoring fights, and some key terms defined.

    7. Thus for all Judges scoring UFC fights, the prioritized order of evaluating criteria is:

    -clean strikes and effective grappling are weighed first.

    -octagon control

    -effective aggressiveness

    M. Domination Criteria

    1. A Judge may determine that a fighter dominated his opponent in a round. This can lead to a two point or more difference on a Judge's scorecard.

    2. The definition of a dominating round is a fighter's ability to effectively strike, grapple and control his opponent.

    3. A Judge may determine a round was dominating if a fighter was adversely affected by one of the following:

    -knocked down from standing position by clean strike

    -by submission attempt

    -from a throw

    -from clean strikes either standing or grounded.

    F. Clean Strikes

    1. The fighter who is landing both effective and efficient clean strikes.

    2. There are two ways of measuring strikes:

    -the total number of clean strikes landed (more efficient)

    -the total number of heavy strikes landed (more effective)

    G. The heavier striker who lands with efficiency, deserves more credit from the Judges than total number landed.

    1. If the striking power between the fighters was equal, then the total number landed would be used as the criteria.

    2. The total number of strikes landed, should be of sufficient quantity favoring a fighter, to earn a winning round.

    H. Strikes thrown from the top position of the guard, are generally heavier and more effective than those thrown from the back.

    1. Thus a Judge shall recognize that effective strikes thrown from the top guard position are of "higher quality", than thrown from the bottom.

    2. The Judge shall recognize that this is not always the case.

    However, the vast majority of fighters prefer the top guard position to strike from. This is a strong indication of positional dominance for striking.

    I. Effective Grappling

    1. The Judge shall recognize the value of both the clean takedown and active guard position.

    2. The Judge shall recognize that a fighter who is able to cleanly takedown his opponent, is effectively grappling.

    3. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter on his back in an active guard position, can effectively grapple, through execution of repeated threatening attempts at submission and reversal resulting in continuous defense from the top fighter.

    4. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter who maneuvers from guard to mount is effectively grappling.

    5. A Judge shall recognize that the guard position alone shall be scored neutral or even, if none of the preceding situations were met.(items 2-4)

    6. A Judge shall recognize that if the fighters remain in guard the majority of a round with neither fighter having an edge in clean striking or effective grappling, (items 2-4), the fighter who scored the clean takedown deserves the round.

    7. A clean reversal is equal to a clean takedown in effective grappling

    J. Octagon Control

    1. The fighter who is dictating the pace, place and position of the fight.

    2. A striker who fends off a grappler's takedown attempt to remain standing and effectively strike is octagon control.

    3. A grappler who can takedown an effective standing striker to ground fight is octagon control.

    4. The fighter on the ground who creates submission, mount or clean striking opportunities

    K. Effective Aggressiveness

    1. This simply means who is moving forward and finding success.(scoring)

    2. Throwing a strike moving backwards is not as effective as a strike thrown moving forward.

    3. Throwing strikes and not landing is not effective aggressiveness.

    4. Moving forward and getting struck is not effective aggressiveness.

    5. Shooting takedowns and getting countered and fended off is not effective aggressiveness.

    The first time I watched this fight, I scored it 49-46 Rampage in my head. When Bruce read the scores there was no doubt in my mind they were for Rampage, but when he said NEW light heavyweight champion I was flabbergasted. I’m not claiming to know more than any referee or judge, but I’m usually pretty good at calling decisions, and for this one to be so lopsided just bugged me. Since then I have watched the fight several times, and twice taking a long time to watch things repeatedly and in slow motion to come up with my own tally of landed punches, kicks, etc. I tried my best to not be biased, which was easy cuz I like both the guys. And I’m actually quite impressed with my results. Comparing them to fightmetric’s tally (http://fightmetric.com/fights/Griffin-Rampage.html), I am pretty close with them. However I disagree with them in round five and two. Now I’m going to give my round by round thoughts on the fight.

    Round one – Two judges gave this round to Forrest! Un believable! I recorded 12 kicks, 6 punches, and 4 knees for Forrest, fightmetric had 13 kicks, 6 punches, and 7 other strikes to the mid section. For Rampage I recorded 16 punches, and 2 kicks, fightmetric had 15 punches and 2 kicks. However, referring to the above mentioned rules and definitions “the heavier striker who lands with efficiency, deserves more credit from the Judges than total number landed”. I saw 5 HEAVY shots from Rampage in the first, one wobbled him, and another dropped him! I don’t think Rampage deserves a 10-8 for this round because Forrest was toe to toe the whole way. But without a shadow of a doubt this is Rampage’s round. Something else I want to bring up is combinations. I think combinations should definitely be factored into “effective striking”, not sure if they are or not. But Rampage pulled out 2 nice combos in the first, throughout the fight I recorded 14 solid combinations by Rampage and almost all of those contained one or more power shots, whereas Forrest LANDED one single 2 punch combo in the third, neither punch being very powerful. Just something to think about.

    Round two- Obviously this is Forrest’s round, but the question is, should it be a 10-8. The way I score the fight it doesn’t matter if you give it to him or not, but I still think a 10-8 is not deserved. Those who look at fightmetric, and just look at the overall totals are being misled. They give Forrest 47 strikes in this round! Not counting the two leg kicks, which by the way are two of the only three powerful strikes I would give to Forrest. I don’t think Forrest “cleanly landed” 47 shots while he laid on top of Rampage for four and a half minutes. The best thing Forrest did on the ground was change positions. But even then, he was in Rampages guard, had him in side control, and in a full freakin mount and the most effective attack I saw was Forrest grinding his forearm on Rampages face! I think Rampage displayed more effective ground and pound the 45 seconds he was on top in the first! And hears another thought, how did Forrest get away with laying on top of Rampage for four and a half minutes inflicting ZERO damage, and not get stood up?! I haven’t heard or seen anyone say that yet. All right, enough on round two, 10-9 Griffin, give him 10-8 if you really want.

    Round three- This is the most debatable round in my opinion. For Forrest I had 5 punches and 9 kicks, fightmetric had 4 punches and 10 kicks. And for Rampage I had 12 punches, and fightmetric had 8. Now 8 and 12 is a pretty big difference, If I’m right then the round clearly goes to Rampage, and if not it could go to Griffin. But referring again to the definitions above striking quality trumps numbers. Weather its 8 or 12, Rampage landed 4 powerful punches, one of which wobbled Griffin. And again, Rampage landed 3 combos. Watching it several times I think Rampage definitely landed more than 8 punches in round three. And I think the fact he landed several powerful shots and wobbled Forrest should be more than enough to solidly win the round.

    Round four- Anybody who thinks Forrest won this round, I HATE YOU!!! In my opinion this is the only round that should/could be considered a 10-8. Fightmetric agrees with what I’m about to say. Forrest Griffin, in all of round 4, lands ONE punch, ONE kick, and ONE submission attempt that got him slammed! COMEON! Who in their right mind could possibly give this round to Forrest! This has been the most annoying thing to me, even a sherdog article came out with fighters giving their opinion on the fight, and a few of them said round 4 was Griffins. Wake up and smell the roses, this was the MOST dominating round of the fight. I had Rampage landing 28 punches and fightmetric had him landing 36! Not only that, he landed 6 power shots and 5 combinations. The third or fourth power shot (both of which were in the second combination) opened a nasty gash under Griffins eyebrow. Then after Forrest’s failed takedown attempt, Rampage displayed more effective ground and pound to open the cut more. And in the last combo Rampage threw, he opened the cut even more with another power punch. This round was a beautiful display of clean powerful striking by Quinton. And if anyone doesn’t consider this round sheer and utter domination, you’re insane!

    Round five- Another debatable one. I had Forrest landing 7 kicks, 8 punches, and 5 knees. Fightmetric had him landing 9 kicks, and 13 upper body strikes. Now here is my biggest disagreement with fightmetric, they have Rampage landing 1 kick, and only 11 punches. I agree with the kick, but I guarantee that Rampage landed a whole lot more than 11 punches! I recorded 24, 6 being power punches, and landing 4 combo’s. I’m surprised our numbers are so far apart. I watched the fifth round again after seeing fightmetric and I guarantee atleast 20 clean punches. I intend to email them and let them know what I think. Even though they have Rampage winning, but by a draw. I’m not even going to go into if fightmetric is right, because their not! Maybe they didn’t watch the last minute of the fight, because Rampage turned it up a notch. He may have landed 10 or more in that last minute. I think the facts that Rampage again landed several power shots and combos, and stepped up the last minute clearly win Rampage the round, hands down.

    After analyzing this fight for many hours, I still come up with the same result as my initial gut feeling, 49-46 Rampage or even 49-45 giving him a 10-8 in round 4. I don’t get how the 2 judges gave round 1 to Forrest more than anything. And such a lopsided decision. I can only think they were influenced by the Forrest hype that seemed to be all around the event. Normally such close rounds, even though I don’t think they were too close, easily go to the champion. Or maybe they were taking Forrest’s fast and sloppy pace as octagon control or controlling the pace. Or counting a lot of Griffins missed strikes. And why doesn’t Quinton get any kudos for his defense? I’ve always been amazed by Rampages defensive skill, in my eyes there second to none. And such a good defense should be considered by judges. Aside from round 2, this fight was all Rampage. Considering the first priority in judging a fight is clean strikes, there should be no question Rampage won. Round after round he got the better of the stand up, landing big powerful punches, and many beautiful combinations. How can mediocre leg kicks compete with powerful punches and combinations? I’m going to stop babbling now. Hopefully I feel a little better knowing my opinions out there, and I hope I sway some of you to my side. I realize I may sound like I’m hating Forrest, but I love Forrest and would love to see him champion, but not like this. And as for a rematch, I hope Juanito gets it immediately, Rampage was straight up robbed. Heck, I’d find it fair to have the commission overturn the decision and just give the belt to its rightful owner J

    If anyone wants to discuss further with me: wdandrsn@musician.org

  27. roy

    July 8, 2008 at 6:22 am

    dan i agree with your assement of the fight great job,its pretty much how i saw the fight, as far as them giving rampage the belt back it will never happen but i would love a instant rematch witch i dout think will happen either.how anyone gave forrest round 1 is beyond me but the decision was no where near the worst one i have seen so its hard to agrue it.

  28. icemanrcks

    July 9, 2008 at 9:13 am

    dan i think you are the only one who saw the fight wrong.you need to get off of rampages jock and realize he is not as good as you think he. is he got beat! he was controlled the whole fight not dominated but controlled. quit looking at it as a fan and just look at it in a points match. your post made me laugh my as* off. copy paste the rules like you know your sh!t. im a chuck fan but move over and let forrest have his shine in the light. or jusat quit posting all together

  29. PoppyNick

    July 9, 2008 at 10:09 am

    Iceman which fight did you watch. Dan's assessment of the fight is right on and exactly how I saw it as well….and I watched it 5 times. Your problem is you are a Chuck fan and he's whooped your boys a$$ TWICE!!!! Pretty clear why you are hating on Rampage bro.

  30. icemanrcks

    July 9, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    poppy im not haiting like you would say he is just not as good as people think. it isnt abbout whooping chuck wich i agree he did. he just can not fight someone with forrests style. he didnt look like the rampage he normaly dose. he was not agressive witch is brought up in dan andersons rediculious posting. forrest through him off. and i dont think he deserves to be the champion. you all say you need a big win to take a tittle well just standing around getting a big shot here or there in a fight dosent count when your the champ. the champ needs to deserve the title and hold it strong. balls out all 5 like he did with henderson. i think he will be back for it but he knows he needs to prove he is the man. with a tittle on the line you cant let it go to the judges. it was to close and being the champ too close is not what you let happen. you destroy.

  31. Dan Anderson

    July 10, 2008 at 4:02 am

    icemanrcks- #1 how can you say "dan i think you are the only one who saw the fight wrong." when the guy right after me says he agrees 100%, silly. #2 I LOVE FORREST! I've watched every one of his fights, and there's nothing to not like about the guy. I would love to see Forrest champion, but he didn't win that fight. #3 "copy paste the rules like you know your sh!t." There not rules, there judging criteria. I thought it important people see that. Heck, it was the first time I read them. But the main point I wanted to get across from posting them is clean and effective striking are to be weighed first in making a decision. And that heavy efficient strikes deserve more credit than #landed. People are under a misconception that Forrest landed a ton more strikes. The fact of the matter is, in rounds 1,3,and 5 (4 being a blowout for Rampage), the strike count was pretty damn even. How many times through out the fight did Forrest make you say "damn that hurt" after landing a strike? Twice, maybe three times, the two leg kicks in the 2nd, and a punch or two in the 5th. Rampage on the other hand? Several times in each round! (except the 2nd of course) Quinton clearly landed many power punches in every round. And efficiency? Thats a joke! Christ, Forrest probably missed more punches than Rampage even threw! Rampage made Forrest look silly standing in my opinion. Even stat sites have the overall percentage landed somewhere around 33% Griffin 50% Jackson. I want to talk about control a little. I liked a post on some site, someone said something to the extent of "who cares if Griffin was more active, this isnt a dance contest". If you watch the fight and pay attention you will see that the ONLY times Rampage backs up is when Forrest is trying to throw a combo or kick. On the other hand, Forrest backs up every time HE lands something, every time Rampage throws something, and every time Rampage took a step towards Forrest, Forrest took 2 steps back! I think Rampage controlled the pace, because even though Forrest looked busier, Rampage didn't let him do what he wanted. He blocked the vast majority of what Forrest threw at him, picked his spots and ultimately displayed more powerful and efficient stand up. iceman, as far as me not posting anymore, this is the first time I've ever posted anything on internet forums. The decision on this fight bugged me so much I had to get my thoughts out there just to feel better. So don't worry, you probably wont see me around after this one dies out, until another bad decision :-) And did you really have to call my post ridiculous? I was pretty proud of my assessment, and it came from a guy who watched the fight with NO bias. Unlike you, Chucks boy. #1 scoring criteria = clean effective striking. Rampage clear winner 49-46

  32. roy

    July 10, 2008 at 4:14 am

    good stuff dan, nothing ridiculous about it.

  33. Nichole Lesniak

    July 10, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    And therein lies the difference between all of you and the judges – they are not necessarily "FANS". They are judges. Their assessments were 100% accurate.

    Forrest didn't necessarily "win" the fight, but Rampage ABSOLUTELY lost it.

  34. Jacob

    July 12, 2008 at 7:49 am

    I agree with Dan's assessment of the fight. It made a lot of sense. A lot more sense than Nichole's comment. I mean no offense but the only differance the judges and us is the judges get to see the fights live and for free. You can't really say the judges assessments were 100% accurate because they're human beings. NOT gods. Just like our decisions, their's could be swayed by personal bias; and even more so by public opinion and pure corruption. I'm not saying it happened here, but it has happened before. I didn't think both fighters won convincingly, but most the time the win is usually given to the champ because the pressure is on the challenger to show everyone that he beat the champion without a shadow of a doubt. I didn't see that in Forrest, but like all things in life, there are exceptions to the rules. This is on one of them. Does Rampage deserve a rematch? Most definitely. Does he deserve one right away? Definitely not. Let him work his way up like everyone else. I'm happy for Forrest because he really worked hard and it was long overdue, but remember: It's a lot harder to keep the title than it is to win it.

  35. dane drebin

    July 12, 2008 at 8:14 am

    i scored it a draw and i think the title should ahve stayed with rampage but rampage can only be upset with himself for letting forest dominate round 2.

  36. roy

    July 12, 2008 at 8:36 am

    i have seen a few judges, and i don't know where they get them from most of them look like they have never watched a mma fight before and your right there not fans and most likely a few of them don't understand the sport.

  37. naco21

    July 12, 2008 at 9:20 am

    RE-MATCH

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